Remember Flight 93? They’re Building a Memorial…

This picture is of the proposed memorial honoring the heroes of Flight 93. You are not going to believe this story posted by World Net Daily:

Where is the outrage?  This is beyond stupid, beyond belief, beyond comprehension.

Also check this companion article:

And this one:



  1. Chuck Haugn

    “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

    There’s your answer.

  2. Although, to be sure, I don’t see what your reply has to do with my post. I don’t disagree, in fact, Romans 5:6-8 is my ‘life verse’ along with Isaiah 55:9-11. Stil, I’m not sure I see the connection. But thanks for reading nonetheless.


  3. sprocket23

    You just blew it, Dan. Chuck was going to move to your area and go to your church, but your intolerance towards terrorists have convinced him to find a bigger church. Too bad for you!

    For the record, I don’t get the verse in this context either.

  4. Chuck Haugn

    Dan, you asked “My question is this: If God does indeed love us just as we are and not as we ought to be, then why does God work so hard at changing us.”

    My verse was in answer to your question. Jesus loves “while we were still sinners.” He doesn’t love us more because we change and become holy. He loves us “just as we are.”

    By the way, I got the link to your site from Robert’s site.

  5. Oh, I guess that means you meant to reply to a different post. That’s cool. My question was asked somewhat tongue in cheek. It was more rhetorical than anything else, but I appreciate that you thought about it. Thanks for reading and replying. I do appreciate it!



    notice that cool rss feed I linked here from your site? I’m having fun learning this blog stuff. –jerry

  6. Here’s what I originally wrote:

    My question is this: If God does indeed love us just as we are and not as we ought to be, then why does God work so hard at changing us (a process called sanctification, See John 17) and recreating us in the image of Christ (Colossians 3:9-11), calling us to repentance, and in general telling us that our previous lives were empty, shallow, hopeless, sinful, and meaningless?

    This was in response to a book blurb which stated that God loves us ‘just the way we are.’ I took their point to mean that ‘you don’t have to change to come to worship with us.’ Or, perhaps even more disturbingly, ‘you don’t have to change to be a Christian.’ The full quote is thus:

    “Filled with firsthand discoveries that often put Foster at odds with his peers, this book exposes myths and half-truths found in organized religion today. Foster boasts that “God loves you as you are, not as you ought to be,” and shows an exciting Christian life does not have to be an oxymoron. He dares Christians to be what they were made to be – renegades for God.”

    I disagree with this theology. Yes, God loves us while we were sinners and sent Christ to die for us because 1) he did not want us to stay sinners and 2) he knew we could not/would not die for ourselves, and 3) because he hates the way we are/were. To say ‘he loves us as we are, not as we ought to be’ negates these facts. God, in fact, does not ‘love us as we are’ or else Christ would not have died. So, while ‘come whosoever will’ is sort of fine, there is no indication whatsoever in Scripture that God ‘loves the sinner and hates the sin’ (as if sin and sinners can be or are mutually exclusive) to the extent that he overlooks one to get to the other.

    I think the Scripture clearly teaches, despite the mantra of ‘come as you are’ or ‘just as I am’ (which is more Cobain than Jesus) that God does not ‘like us’ in our current state or else Christ is rather a moot point. Don’t you think? I think if we sell this theology to people, which is what the blurb is trying to do in order to be appealing and ‘up to date’, then I think we are telling them that God does not expect us to change–either by His will or ours. I think that is bad theology and contra Scripture.


  7. Chuck Haugn

    I have to disagree. God loves us even if we reject Him completely and spit in His face.

  8. Well, Chuck, you are wrong. If you were right, there would be no place for Christ, repentance, or the judgment to come. As it is, Scripture says there is judgment to come. Do you think God will continue loving those he condemns to hell? Do you think God loves those who are in open rebellion against him? Or do you think, “Jacob I have loved; Esau I have hated”? Even the Psalmist can say, “I Hate those who hate you”

    But feel free to disagree. I welcome the conversation. I don’t have to persuade you. Also, I invite you to prove your point from Scripture. Scripture always matters at my blog. And I don’t think you can make your point from Scripture–at all.


  9. Chuck Haugn

    Yes, God loves those He condemns to hell. God loves those who are in open rebellion against Him.

    Do I need to cite Scripture? Isn’t the Cross enough?

  10. So show me how a God of love can, the God you are talking about, send all those people who reject the cross to hell? Into the lake of fire? Into the second death? Does a God of the sort of love you are talking about actually love those rebellious right into heaven–regardless of whether they want him to or not?

    Why aren’t all people saved? Why is there a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth? Yes. Cite Scripture, because you are quite making this a different argument. There is no doubt that God so loved the world that he sent his One and Only Son. However, where you are wrong, is in assuming that the cross allows us to make no choice as to our destiny. The cross does not nullify the summons to salvation or absolve all of guilt. It justifies those who, through Christ, call on the Name of the Lord. Those who do not call on the Name of the Lord are still quite lost–regardless of how much God loved them when He sent His Son.

    So, yes. Cite your Scripture to prove that God loves those in open rebellion into salvation regardless of their guilt. I think you have mixed the argument and confused the two sides of the issue, which is the difference between God loving the world and Sending His Son once to die, and God loving those who accept Jesus. (See John’s Gospel 16:27. In fact, read John 13-17 to make my point over yours.)


  11. Chuck Haugn

    I didn’t claim that God “loves those in open rebellion into salvation.” I am claiming that God loves even those whose destination is hell.

    The burden of proof is yours. The New Testament clearly teaches us that God is love, and that God loves “even while we were sinners.” You state that God does not love those He sends to hell. Where is your biblical support for that position?

  12. God’s love is a function of his holiness and I dare say that God will not allow his holiness to be offended or mocked by sinners who will not repent or who continue to mock Him in unbelief. (“It is a dangerous thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”) The burden of proof is not mine, but yours. You did, in fact, claim that God loves those in open rebellion you said: “God loves us even if we reject Him completely and spit in His face.” Doesn’t the very fact that God allows people to choose hell for themselves (or ‘sends them there’) demonstrate a theology of hate? No, the burden is yours to show how God continues to love those he knows will never bend their knee and repent. Show me.


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